codependency

[flamingsword]

So this week my therapist asked me to think about codependency in my relationships, and things to watch out for in other's behaviour and in mine. To make this easier, I started looking up ways codependency manifests in people, and hoo boy.

Like, I get that codependency is bad, y'all, I do. But some of the folks writing these articles are trying to ascribe every bad thing under the sun to it as primary cause, and that is just not how any of that works. Like saying that codependents "gauge their words carefully to achieve the desired effect," which is, you know, communication? And sure, that could be done manipulatively, but it is not necessarily bad of itself, and even if it were it has no bearing on that being a form or signal of codependency! Codependents also apparently "Lie to protect themselves." Um, I don't know about you, but while I may not like lying, if I think I am in danger I will do so flawlessly and without remorse, and I highly recommend the practice! JFC.

Anyway, back to trying to sort through memories of X and M and the other M, whose relationships with me degraded towards codependency before they had to be put out of our mutual misery. I'm supposed to sort through years of memories, but honestly my memory is crap. I remember some things but probably not very accurately. I know that people's memories re-write themselves over time, and I have no reason to think that I am immune from that. I will be updating this over the next few hours with stuff as I read through some of this dreck and try to sort what are helpful truths from what are the delusions of psychologists. I may bring you more gems.

EDIT:
XD XD XD orz !!!For codependents "Helping or taking care of others makes you feel good" - was this checklist written by a cishet dude or a psychopath? Taking care of people you love is supposed to feel good, dipshit! Of course people get carried away doing the one thing that feels good that society freaking allows them to do! That doesn't make it codependent to feel a natural human urge to take care of others. Oh my fucking gods. This was written by someone other than the last list, which I gave up on as a poisoned well, but I may have to do that here, too.

Comments

[niko_reubens]

I feel dumb, I had to look up what codependency is, lol. It's interesting.

[flamingsword]

I mean if you've never been to AA or therapy, you may have only ever heard the term in passing? So I'm glad to have put another tool in your psychological toolbox for figuring people out, but apparently there's some bullshit floating about down there in internet-land. Take articles with a grain of salt.

[niko_reubens]

I've never been to either, but I did work in a hospital last year, and may have heard it in passing there, now that I think about it. I'm honestly not surprised that there's bullshit in the internets, it seems like there's so much of it anymore. :(

[ex_flameandsong751]

Yes!

I actually have codependency problems, thanks to being the child of an alcoholic with a narcissist who had substance abuse issues, and codependency is bad. However, a lot of information on it is also bad and does not help because, like you pointed out, there's stuff that's just... normal/healthy behavior if you have even a shred of fucking empathy.

Like saying that codependents "gauge their words carefully to achieve the desired effect," which is, you know, communication?

^^This. Like, I overthink goddamn everything, that's one of my superpowers, but I think I'd be like that even if I wasn't abused, because 1. I have OCD which I think is more of a brain wiring issue that would have happened whether my childhood was happy or not, 2. I actually, you know, give a shit about not offending people? [Unless I'm all out of fucks, at which point I know I can be less diplomatic, but it takes a lot for me to get there.]

and we haven't killed anyone yet. Go usses!

[flamingsword]

Yeah, I have anxiety as part of the probably-autism, and I don't think I would be less over-thinky even if I hadn't been raised by an alcoholic dad on painkillers, a mom who was abused by her mom and hadn't been to therapy yet, or in a society that only rewards AFAB folks for our ability to sublimate our needs and take care of others. So yeah, there's so much wiggle room that a lot of the "diagnostic" features are kinda bullshit.

Also, people loved to point out my autistic features in my teen years as things that would get me in trouble in relationships and offered their tacit approval for me sublimating my needs and who I am into a relationship I wasn't even having yet.

Try this ...

[ysabetwordsmith]

Functional relationship: makes life easier.

Dysfunctional relationship: makes life harder.

Interdependent: 2+ people bring out each other's best selves and increase what they can do.

Codependent: 2+ people bring out each other's worst selves and decrease what they can do.

It's not necessarily just about the actions or emotions. It's about the intent and the outcomes. Like how a lot of the same things appear in victim-grooming and trustbuilding.

Unfortunately a lot of people writing psychological stuff don't know nearly as much as they think they do.

Try looking up stuff on family dynamics. There's a lot of good material in there on how relationships work (or not) and the different models can be very enlightening.

Re: Try this ...

[flamingsword]

Mostly I was looking up the actions and emotions trying to spot patterns of behavior in myself and the people I’m in relationships with. “When do I remember doing X or feeling Y or observing Z in someone else?", type of thing. I already know I’m from a home that had unhealthy codependent issues, and I know that I was raised to have traits that fall into those patterns easily. The trick is being me and managing to notice subtle patterns in myself as they’re happening. Which is not a thing I’m good at, but I’m getting better.

Other peoples intentions are not something I can know, and even non-autistic people have a lot of trouble trying to inductive reasoning their way to those intentions from behavioral cues. I absolutely am not going to try making myself crazy and give my anxiety another foothold into my psyche by worrying about something that is both out of my control and beyond my ability to understand or predict. I may feel safer if I can predict the bad stuff coming, and then mitigate that, but it’s a lot of cognitive space taken up by worry and anxiety and listening to fear instead of intaking information on, for instance, whether I am doing a thing that leads to the bad kind of interdependence. It doesn’t even take very much worrying at a problem for me to get caught up in my head and forget to check in with my feelings and actions. I’m envious of people who can handle those kind of mental loads gracefully. I’ve seen it done, but it is hard as hell for me to emulate.