hanging my tomorrows on the bones of yesterday

1. My Chemical Romance isn't punk. They're an Emo band. And they are also decidedly not goth, though someone tried to portray them as such recently to me.

2. They suck. They suck hard. I take their continued existence as proof that nature doesn't really abhor a vacuum, because if it did, with how much they suck, wild animals would have torn them apart a long time ago.

3. After how rude Wren was about playing them at loud volume in her car, even though she knew I hated them, I don't know how long it will be before the trauma wears off and I can listen to their whiney lead singer without wanting to participate in a forced trepanning of the nearest individuals.

4. They're not punk. And they suck. See above for details.

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tanniynim.livejournal.com

Yeah! Somebody beat me to it! I'm officially seconding 1, 2, & 4.

Punk bands:
Flogging Molly
The Ramones
The Stimulators
The Clash
Sex Pistols
The Stooges

Not punk bands:
My Chemical Romance
Gwen Stefani
Jessica Simpson
Puff Daddy
Elvis Presley
Jimmy Eat World

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Emo is the child of theatrical shock rock and punk. You've heard, what, ONE of their songs? And emo is honest, upfront about being broken but still here. It makes people uncomfortable to display your pain and weakness and rage, and it's okay to be uncomfortable - that's the point. It's got a bad rep, but the music is defiant and melodic even if the lyrics sometimes stretch too far for a rhyme. It's good, seriously, and I promise not to play you 'I'm Not Okay' or anything from that whole album.

But still gonna do it.

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Actually, there's some metal influence in some of the Emo too.

I see you've bought into their deception. Emo isn't honest, it's a bunch of guys that think that if they appear sensitive and all sad some woman will take pity on them and they'll get laid. Of course, they're grossly wrong, because only Emo chicks fall for that line of garbage, and they're usually pretty messed up too.

Oh, yeah, their poetry sucks. Wren turned me on to a song that sums it up -- "If yo're Emo and you know it slit your wrists. If you're Emo and you know it slit your wrists. If you're Emo and you know it and a really shitty poet if you're Emo and you know it slit your wrists."

I'm Ok is about the worst thing I've heard in the last five years. I deeply dispise this band. And again, they're not punk. Ramones, Sex Pistols, Dead Kennedy's, Black Flag, very early Go-Go's, (Pre-recording contract), Circle Jerks, some Clash, that's punk. Even Roach Egg Invasion is punk. Emo isn't Punk, it's Emo, something all it's own, which is a good thing, since that means Punk can hold its head up high without shame at begatting such a one eyed freak.

And BTW, you should feel honored. It's a major pain in the tush for me to respond to responses in journals, and I don't do it for just anyone.

But Emo still sucks. It violates Nyyki's first rule of songwriting -- Point a finger, provide an answer.

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I'm especially amused that you listed the Sex Pistols, as they are the rock equivalent of a boy band... A created, marketed unreal thing packaged for people like you. You, sir or madam, are a poser.

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I didn't say I owned any of their stuff, just that they're considered to be Punk by many purists.

The only Punk I own are the first Ramones album, Huevos Roacheros by Roach Egg Invasion, and Return to the Valley of th Go-Go's, which has some of their pre-sign demos on the first disc.

Punk is, eh, okay, I guess, when you're in the right mood. I listen to a wide enough variety of stuff that I can't be pinned down to one style as my main musical style. And yeah, Malcolm McLaren put a band together after a Ramones show, but some of their songs are archetypical punk. It's hard to find a listing of pivotal Punk songs without finding God Save The Queen on it. Doesn't mean I care for the music though -- I tend to perefer some of McLaren's later projects more.

And it's definitely not Sir.

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You mean, you have a strong opinion on a subject on which you are not an authority? Damn, Nyyki that's so arrogant it almost sounds like something I would do.

Watch yourself, girl.

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Own is not a synonym for heard. It's not even a synonym for have exposure to.

I've heard a metric assload of things. The ones I feel meet my standards I actually go out and purchase.

And I'm rather familiar with the spirit of Punk, too. And if I forgot, we actualy had a discussion and presentation of Punk Culture in my multicultural class, and the woman who presented on it echoed rather nicely the statement of Punk Ideals earlier in this thread. (Well, more of a pre-echo) Yeah, I'm definitely more Hippie than Punk, and you'll never be able to take the Jazz influence out of me. (And there is a serious Punk sentiment in the early days of Be-Bop, too) But I still know Punk, having lived through the scene in the 70's and 80's.

And yeah, bad omission on my part in leaving out the Misfits.

One more thing -- Punk has at its core an attitude. But it also has a musical style as a core component. They are not the only ones to have that attitude.They're just the most visible proponent of that attitude in the alt-rock scene most of the time.Saying Punk is all about attitude opens the door for bands like Jesus Jones, Motley Crue, and The Doors to be included in Punk. Punk is a music form with a core attitude behind it, and that form has specific components that make the form integral. After all, if the Punk attitude is required for something to be Punk, then the seminal Punk band The Ramones doesn't fit, as they're lyrically a beach band -- Cars, Girls, and a party. Do not confuse the Punk Culture with Punk Music -- they're not completely synonymous.

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And purists can ruin anything that might possibly be worth a damn. And people who listen and parrot purists, even more so. I've always found it odd when people are willing to make broad sweeping generalizations about something outside of their experience.

I apologize for my earlier vehemence. I truly didn't realize you were arguing from antiquated knowledge and ignorance. Gods know I've done it myself. Gogol Bordello's mre my speed of punk these days, but I'll still rouse myself for anything that has Rollins' tiny meaty awesomeness in it.

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In some agreement with the preceding list, but adding the Dead Kennedys and Misfits to "Punk bands" and Adding Green Day and any bands thereafter to "Not punk bands".

You left out DK?!

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tanniynim.livejournal.com

It was just a quick list. Should have had DK. Apologies.

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LOL, I'll get over it. :)

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I don't have any Dead Kennedy's stuff. Feel free to correct this tragic imbalance. :)

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My current LJ post has links inspired by this thread...

I understand people categorize things differently. :)

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I was involved in the punk scene back in the 80s and early 90s (through the birth of grunge, and that sooo pissed me off), and I think that MCR are a surprisingly relevent descendant to that. I was all geared to hate them, then I heard the Black Parade. It's a surprisingly enjoyable album. I think you know a lot of hipsters who think that 'classic' equals 'relevant'. Punk is a state of mind, and if someone starts doing the 'defining punk' by old bands that everyone's heard of, they have completely fucking missed the point of punk.

Punk is about change, message, and meaning, and if people think genre snobbery makes them more punk, then they should just sit in their classic punk t-shirts they got from hot topic and leave the music appreciation to others.

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That's fine, you have your stuff, I'll have mine and we'll call it what we like. I'm not going to try to stop you, but neither will I be dishonest about my own perspective.

For my own part, I think that whiney puny brat-rock is missing the point of punk. If that's supposed to be what punk is now, it's been emasculated. I know that is an appealing change for many, but not for me.
I think it's been tamed down like a little pet of the mainstream.

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I don't disagree with you that many things that call themselves 'punk' are not within the spirit of it. Still, to only define punk by bands which are old and known to everyone seems an ill definition as well.

A good percentage of the punk that I have really felt and loved has been bands that I've never heard again and people think I made up. Discounting talent simply because it's new and some idiots have gotten hold of it is the same kind of elitism that punk has been fighting to bring down as long as it's been around.

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I see what you mean.
Part of the reason that I cite well-known bands as examples is the fact that their material is more readily available for review.
I enjoyed many bands that usually sprang up for awhile and then got lost in obscurity over time.

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My Chem are more melodic than the Misfits, but they're definitely not masculine. I like that they can flaunt their weaknesses like strengths and be unashamed to be broken but carrying on. It's not macho, just honest. I'm down with honest.

They can wear all the eyeliner they want to as long as they keep their rage and pain thrust in the faces of their audience. It's designed to make people uncomfortable. Again: that says punk to me.

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One can promote strength or weakness and be equally honest.
I happen to think that what one champions is what what grows.
Promoting weakness as strength doesn't seem honest to me at all, it's just magnifying the least desirable qualities. Weakness only turns to strength when it has been addressed and it has been replaced by strength.

I see a recurring idea in those I've known that just because a person or band happens to be really masculine and want to promote strength, they somehow aren't being honest. The same goes for the overuse of the word "macho" to describe these things. s part

Just because a real man wants to deal with his own problems (or discuss them in private with spouse or friend) instead of crying on the shoulder of the world doesn't mean he's particularly hiding anything, it's just that he chooses where to put that and how to see it.

When are people going to be more honest about the male gender, and realize that masculinity and "macho" (a stupid 70's stereotype) are totally separate things?
That might be a better starting point for anything called "masculism" than the unconditional support of promiscuity (which, I'm sorry, was sort of insulting to the intelligence).We don't need more "isms", though. I can see we would do well with fewer.

The "sensitive emo guy" archetype is something that comes with it's own falsehoods, telling the viewing audience that it's somehow more honest. It's just weak.

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I define music partly by what genre it seems to fit in, but mostly by how it makes me feel. That album makes me rebellious, proud to be a freak, wanting to spit in the faces of the people who think they have authority over me. That's punk to me.

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I can relate.
If a Christian priest ever called me "my child", I've always thought it would be great to say, "You fucked my Mom?!! Wow, she must have been drunk at the time!"

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Still at that stage of paganism, are we?

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Actually, I'm not a Pagan, so no.

Another thing to clarify is that I wouldn't actually say that, just thought it a funny response to the talking-down "big arms" thing.

Way past any "Christ-bashing" here.

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And he always will be, gods willing. I don't think it's a stage of paganism for him, just a healthy disrespect for damn near everything that the Heathens all seem to have.

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One could argue the 'healthy', and it certainly seems directed to me. *shrugs* Maybe I spent too much time studying eastern religions to dislike any one particular thing. Holistic hate, woo. Or at least only directing my wrath to individuals, not banners. Plus, I've been called 'my child' by more pagans than Christians. Eris loves anyone, so long as they can pay.

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"TALK AT A NORMAL FUCKING PACE, YOU SEX-NEGATIVE BABY PUSHER!"

This isn't disrespect? lol...

You've profiled the Priest based on a set of assumptions, just as you've profiled Heathens based on an (inaccurate) generalization.

There wasn't anything wrong with the Priest-poking until I joined in.

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Hey, poke at anyone you like in my journal, even me. But expect others to poke also, sometimes at you. Bardkris is spoiling for a good debate it seems, and if I could bring him one, I would. I'm getting over a mother of a headache, though, and brains are in short supply.

Feel free to tell him to pipe down, he can take it. As to me, I profiled the priest based on the words spooling from his mouth like molasses in January. He was all about the baby-pushing, and the Heathens all do seem to have a "you're not the boss of me" attitude and the sort of pioneer spirit that says that sometimes they respect popular wisdom of their peers, and sometimes they're going to do it their own way and ya'll can fuck off. Healthy balance of respect and disrespect: if you did not pick this meaning up, I apologize for the haphazard style of my description.

Be well.

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I hope you get over your headache in short order. I've had some creaks and groans lately as well. I do take some conversations too seriously, and read more into the unfolding of it than I should.

Ok, I see more of what you mean now. Respect is actually pretty high on the heathen list, so yes, I'm sorry I did take the word "disrespect" the wrong way-literally. If I have one consistent social failing, it's taking everything very literally. I have spoiled many good jokes at home and work because people will come at me with something facetious, and I register and answer seriously, lol...

Back to painting, as I should be...

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(and I am sorry for being so hard on your music, just got carried away. If it helps you you through that kinda crap, you just tear it up)

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I figured her profile was based on current actions of a particular, and it seemed yours was based purely on past and preconcieved generalized notions. I have no problem with hating individuals, but hating groups (prejudice) is something that I'm... unreasonably (genuinely) inclined to fight about. I grew up in a place that has a great deal of unreasonableness, and was kicked with it so often in youth that I grew unnaturally sensitive about prejudice, especially from smart people, who should know better.

I truly apologize for lunging.

I do, on the other hand, enjoy a good honest throwdown, and have greatly enjoyed debating heathens (and others, of course) in the past. I've studied the Edda and have my own (albeit abnormal) version of the 9 noble virtues as part of my personal belief set, and while only one Rig personally spoke to me, I've always had respect for the folk who hold such values. I love doing battle (verbal especially, though I've enjoyed other kinds) with honest and noble folk.

I may also be completely misunderstanding a comment that was made. If so, again, I apologize. I've taken a look at your journal, and found it inttriguing. If you can stand my overbearing obnoxiousness, I may ask you if I coudl friend it, as you seem to have thoughts which are interesting and appealing to me. Even if not, thanks for your time. You were fun to argue with.

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Don't let 'purists' tell you what punk is. 'Purists' are poseurs and hipsters no longer attached to the soul of the music. If it moves you, it's what you say it is. Punk especially, is about not doing what the scene tells you to.

A little history so you can more properly defend yourself from hipsters. Emo split off from hardcore in the middle 80s (85ish). It was initially called emocore (with Minor Threat and Rites of Spring to thank for it) that focused less on anger and more on sadness. Emocore was mostly for people who actually were paying attention to their own personal horrible lives than the horrible state of the world and politics. At that time, a lot of the angry political folks also went off to the newer form of anger music, hip-hop. Because of these splits, a lot of hipsters feel like punk died then. I think it's mostly just sour grapes that they weren't the only people angry any more.

If you are actually interested (and it's not already more than you are interested in knowing), the rise of emo is well-chronicled in "Nothing Feels Good", by Andy Greenwald. The album sucks, the books ok. It's a little more cynical than it needs to be, but he was a SPIN writer, so whatever.

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I think you need to go get in a bar fight or a game of speed chess or a theological debate that includes the hurling of texts. You're a bit more combat-prone than usual, and I'd like to oblige you with a good fight, but can't seem to manage it. My brain is all fucked today. Stupid headaches . . .

I may check out that book, though.

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